Cabinet Doors: Do Most Cabinetmakers Make Them Themselves?

I got a question from "Secrets..." subscriber Marlin-

Marlin asks, "Do most cabinetmakers make or buy their doors?"

Well Marlin,

I can only answer for myself and most of the cabinetmakers I know in the Southern California area. I certainly can't answer for "all" cabinetmakers as I'm sure this issue varies from region-to-region.

That said, in our business, (www.CaptainCabinets.com) we buy our doors, drawer fronts and matching end panels. We do continue to make our drawer boxes if our clients choose our "standard" construction method but buy them if our client requests dovetailed drawers.

The decision comes down to pure economics and client demands. In our area, most of the cabinet door manufacturers offer more than 40 different door profiles and most of our clients know this and demand that type of selection.

In order to pull this off, at minimum, you'd have to have a shaper and 40 different sets of cutter heads to go with it. That's an upfront investment of over $20K and this is just the beginning!

A custom door manufacturer buys their lumber in huge quantities, has CNC (computer numerically controlled) shaping equipment, custom profile sanders, etc. etc. which allows them to deliver a quality product at a price a small-sized cabinetmaker just can't match.

Now then, I'll share some resources, but bear in mind that many door manufacturers won't sell to the do-it-yourselfer... they only sell to the "trade." While I'm not certain, I believe Corona Millworks and Cal Door will sell to the do-it-yourselfer.

We primarily use these two manufacturers...

http://www.dreeswoodproducts.com/

http://www.coronamillworks.com/index1.html

Other manufacturers include...

http://www.caldoor.com/

http://www.decore.com/

I hope this helps,

Kevin A. Koop
aka TheCabinetGuyOnline

P.S. If you're reading this and you're not yet a "Secrets..." subscriber, go to:
http://www.thecabinetguyonline.com and get my FREE Mini-course

Kitchen Cabinet Installation: A Photo Series

News about my Kitchen Cabinet Installation: Photo Series

I probably should have mentioned this before but I'll do it now...
If you've stumbled across this blog you should know that I'm a professional custom cabinetmaker and finish carpenter.

I offer a Free Minicourse on Cabinetmaking at my site, http://www.thecabinetguyonline.com as well as a Kitchen Cabinet Installation Photo series which begins at:
http://www.thecabinetguyonline.com/rialto_kitchen.html

The photo series has grown to around 9-10 pages in length and you can find a link that will take you to the next page in the series near the bottom of each page.

With that said, I hope you enjoy the Kitchen Cabinet Installation series and hope that you find it useful and enjoyable.

To your woodworking success,

Kevin A. Koop "The Cabinet Guy Online"

Cabinet Pricing: Why Does It Vary So Much?

Cabinet Pricing... it seems like a topic that just will never go away!

I had dinner with a good friend of mine, Kevin Lerma, last night. Kevin is a custom furnituremaker (and sometimes a reluctant cabinetmaker). Ha Ha, Kevin if you're reading this!

He brought a copy of Wood Digest with him to dinner. If you're not familiar with Wood Digest it's a trade-only magazine for professional woodworkers.

I noticed that there was a headline on the cover about Pricing Strategies and so began our conversation... Every year there is a special "Pricing Issue" in Cabinetmaker magazine. Cabinetmaker is another trade-only magazine which specializes in providing information to
small, custom cabinetmakers like me.

Now, before I say what I'm about to say let me mention that I love Cabinetmaker magazine. The publication is well written and provides useful information. It's just that, I don't happen
to agree with their philosophies in regards to pricing.

You see, each and every year they run this special "Pricing Issue" where cabinetmakers from
across the country submit bids for a job detailed in the issue. After all the submissions are received they publish another issue with the results.

Each and every year the result is the same... There will be a large cavern between the low and high bids even though the cabinetmakers are bidding on the same job. The editors at Cabinetmaker always try to make the readers think that this should not be and that the variance of pricing should be quite minimal... I for one, disagree and I'll tell you why.

Pricing is a complex issue and is based on many things... You have to consider hard costs, i.e. shop space rental, labor costs, workers compensation costs, business liability insurance, material costs, etc. etc.

Our shop is in Southern California and while we probably don't have the highest "hard costs" we're definitely towards the top. How is a Southern California Cabinetmaker supposed to be able to turn in the same bid amount as a cabinetmaker in say, a small town in Kansas when the
Southern California Cabinetmaker is paying 3-4 times the "hard costs" of the one in Kansas?

It's just not reality, that all! Pricing is also based on profitablity and we certainly don't all agree as to what we want to make. In fact, I know professional woodworkers who don't even track their profitability! It's no wonder they make so little, they merely work for the pleasure of keeping their staff employed.

One last thought before I get off my soapbox... Pricing (and subsequently value) is alway based on what the market will bear. "Something" is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

In Southern California the median new home is valued at over $600,000 and homes valued at over a Million Dollars are a "dime a dozen!" If my custom cabinet bid comes in at $100,000 for a home valued at $1,000,000 then my bid is 1/10th the homes value.

Try getting $100,000 for a kitchen in some city where the median home price is $200,000...
Good luck!

Anyway, I guess my point is this... Pricing is unique to the costs of doing business, the profitability which you demand, and at the end of the day, what your clients are willing to pay.
We typically get more for our jobs than shops located around us but our clients are happy to
pay what we ask because they know they're going to get solid design, quality construction, installation and finish and that if they have a problem, they know we'll be there for them in the future.

So, to all the Pro's (or aspiring Pro's) reading this... remember to calculate all your hard costs and add to that a nice profit margain because quality craftsmanship is hard-to-find and you shouldn't have to apologize to anyone for doing well!

Determining The Distance Between Base & Wall Cabinets

Hey there,
I received a really great question from one of my subscribers to the "Secrets of the
Professional Cabinetmaker" Mini-Course.

I decided to post the original question, and my reply, here on the blog as I'm sure it
will be of interest to most everyone! If you're not yet a subscriber, go to http://www.thecabinetguyonline.com and sign up!

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Question:

Greetings,

I am in the process of starting on our new kitchen cabinets. I read the cabinetmaking info you supplied and understand that wall cabinets are normally 18” above the base cabs. However, I didn’t see anything on wall cabinet distance over a range. Is there a standard norm or just a variable?

Thanks,
Ed
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply:

Hi Ed,

I just got back from vacation and got your email…

Before I answer your question regarding ventilation cabinets let's go back to "standard" wall cabinet placement.

Most of the time, I try to set the wall cabinets 18" above the finished countertop.This means that the "level-line" I use for the wall cabinets will actually be 18" above the base cabinets PLUS whatever thickness the finished countertop will be.

If the finished countertop is going to be a solid-surface product like Corian, the level-line will be 18 3/4" above the base cabinet height. The thickness of the "Corian" is roughly 3/4" and is installed right-on-top of the base cabinets.

If the finished countertop is going to be granite, the level-line will be 19 1/2" above the base cabinets as the thickness of the granite and the 5/8" thick plywood subtop it's set on will be about 1 1/2" thick total.

Now then, these are not hard-and-fast figures! Generally any distance (measured from finished countertop to bottom of wall cabinet) that is in the 16-18" range should work just fine.

Here's a couple of things to think about when gauging this distance… You want to know the height of any countertop appliance that will generally stay in place… Let's say you have a real nice Coffee Maker that stands 17" tall. Allowing 16" is probably not going to work.

Check all countertop appliance heights before setting this distance in stone (I mean wood) ;- )
Also, I generally only go to 16" when one (or both) of my clients are short. If the primary cook is only 5' 3", you may consider setting the wall cabinets 16" above the finished countertop to help them access the wall cabinets. I have only once set wall cabinets tighter than 16" but that was against my better judgment.

Now then, to answer your question about the placement of the wall cabinet above the range…
This placement is determined by the requirements of your ventilation system (and your local building codes). Read the installation information supplied with your ventilator to determine correct placement.

Generally, most ventilators are installed between 30" and 36" above the range. The closer the ventilator is to the range the more efficient it will be. That being said, it will also allow less room for which to cook in.

I try to keep the ventilator 34-36" above the range whenever possible. This will normally be sufficient for ventilation, allow more room for the cook, and generally be acceptable for the building inspector.

Please make sure to read the installation instructions for the ventilator and research your areas building codes before you determine an exact placement.

Thanks again for your interest and Good Luck with your install!

Kevin

Cabinetry Installation Schedules... You've Got To Be Flexible

In my last post, I told you a little about a Kitchen Cabinet Installation
my partner and I just started in Rialto, California. I told you about
some challenges we encountered... but I didn't reveal how we overcame
them.

Well, I planned on giving this insight along with an update on the job but...
As eluded to in this post's title, you have to be flexible when it comes to
cabinetry installation schedules. (Or any construction schedule for that matter).

I was on my way to the jobsite when... I received a call from my partner, Ovidio.
(Yeah, that's kind of a strange name... my partner is originally from Cuba. He's
a real great guy and a lot of fun to work with! Even though his English is great, we
have great laughs whenever he comes up with a pronunciation of a word that's not
quite right... Think Ricky Ricardo and you get the idea!)

Anyway, Ovidio called me to let me know we had to abandon our plans to continue
the installation (for the day). It seems some other trade needed to be in "Our" = )
space. That being the case, he decided to postpone the installation and bang out
some more work in the shop.

Now that you know "the skinny"... Let's talk about how we overcame the issue I
presented in my last post. You'll recall that the wall-to-wall dimension shrunk by
almost an inch from what was on our original plan and what we built the cabinetry to.

We leave an "ear" on our face-frames whenever possible. By that I mean that our face-frame
is wider than the cabinet box it is attached to. We typically leave 1/4" protruding on
any cabinet which will attach to another and 1/2" on any face-frame which will terminate
to a wall. This "ear" (or overhang, or protrusion, or whatever makes sense to you) gives
two benefits...

First, it allows you to trim them down in order to shrink the overall width of the installed cabinetry... and Second, it allows you to "scribe" the Stiles tight to the untrue walls.

We thought about trying to take the entire inch needed in this manner but decided not to.
Some of the Stiles would have been left too skinny. The cabinetry would have fit... but it
wouldn't have looked right.

Instead, we took a more primitive route. In the left corner, where the wall-angle was
way off 90 degrees, the cabinet box was tight to the corner but the face-frame was still
a litle more than 5/8" away from the wall. We decided to cut the offending drywall out
of that area which allowed the cabinet to shift left the thickness of the drywall (5/8").

We gained the remaining distance by cutting off about 3/8" off the Stile which abutts the
right wall. With these two procedures, we got back what we needed.

Well, gotta run back to the jobsite again... Keep on the lookout for more updates as time allows!

Take care,

Kevin

P.S. I've started a Kitchen Cabinetry Installation: Photo Series on a Secret Webpage. It
was especially designed for subscribers of my Free Mini-Course. If you're interested in
Building Cabinets, go to: http://www.thecabinetguyonline.com and grab the Mini-Course
for yourself!

Cabinetry Installations... No Two Are Alike!

Well, today marks day two of a cabinetry installation my partner
and I are doing in Rialto, California. The kitchen is on the small
side but I'm already anxious to see the final result as it's going
to be beautiful!

Before beginning actual installation, we go through a number of steps
in preparation. We "shoot" level-lines on the wall with a laser level
(we use a Stabila) and then snap chalk-lines onto the wall as our
reference to follow.

After the chalk-lines are snapped, we find all the studs in the installation
area and mark them out. Once this is complete, we take measurements
of the area to make sure they match up with the measurements on our
drawings. (These are the measurements we took much earlier in the
process that allowed us to complete accurate drawings.)

As soon as we did this we knew we had a challenge... The wall we decided
to begin the installation on (The one with the kitchen sink, range, vent hood, etc.)
was about an inch narrower than our drawings said it shoud be.

How did this happen you ask? Did we bungle the original measurements?

No, the original measurements were fine but here's how it happened... The General
Contractor had stripped the drywall off the two walls adjacent to the wall in
question. Some furring out had happened on one and 5/8" drywall was attached
where it had been 1/2" previously.

Also, one of the wall-corner angles was way off 90 degrees. I didn't measure the
angle but wouldn't be surprised if it was nearing 100 degrees. This meant that
the measurement taken tight to the wall was about 5/8" less than the measurement
taken 12" forward of the installation wall. This is the area that represents where the
actual cabinet face-frame will make contact to the adjacent walls.

What did we do? You'll have to "tune-in" tomorrow to find out as I've just looked at the
clock and realize I need to get to the jobsite for "round-two."

Take good care,

Kevin


P.S. As with all cabinetry installations, this one has posed some challenges.
Actually, it's what makes the job enjoyable for me!

If you're interested in knowing how to build your own cabinets, grab a copy
of my Free Mini-Course at: http://www.thecabinetguyonline.com

A Funny Story About A High-Maintenance Cabinetry Client

By Kevin Koop aka TheCabinetGuyOnline

Today, I just thought I’d relay a funny story that happened to my business partner and I a while back. I’ve withheld the client’s names for reasons which will become obvious to you in a minute.

Since we (my Partner and I) specialize in “Upper-End” Custom Cabinetry we tend to get finicky clients. Usually, we don’t have any problems because we’re as finicky (if not more so) than the majority of the homeowners we work for.

This story, however, is an exception…

We finished a beautiful kitchen for a retired couple not long ago. The couple had been extremely “High-Maintenance” throughout the entire job but we managed to complete the job to their satisfaction and just as importantly, got paid!

A few weeks went by and we got a call from the couple demanding that we come to their home to fix something “we had installed incorrectly.” My business partner went to their home to determine what the problem was.

Upon arrival, he was told that we must have installed the oven cabinet wrong but they wouldn’t elaborate. My partner put a level to the cabinet and found that it was plumb and level. He also put the level to the oven itself (which was not installed by us) and found it to be level.

He told the homeowners he couldn’t find anything wrong with the installation of the oven cabinet or oven itself and asked if they could explain why they thought something was wrong. Rather than explain, they got irritated and said they would just call the appliance installer as it must be his fault.

We happen to know the appliance installer so we called him to give him the “heads up.”

The appliance installer went to the home and went through the same exact process my partner did. The cabinet and oven were level, the oven powered up and appeared to be working perfectly.

He told the homeowners he couldn’t find a problem and asked them to explain why they thought something was wrong with the oven. Once again, rather than explaining they got mad and told the appliance installer to leave and return in about an hour so they could show him proof there was a problem.

He obliged and upon his return found that the lady of the house had baked an Angel Food cake. At first, he thought she must have baked him a cake to apologize for their behavior but he quickly found out differently!

She said, “see, I told you the oven was installed wrong!” He looked at the cake and had no clue what she was referring to. She got even more irritated and told him to measure the cake’s height.

He measured the height on one side of the cake and then the opposite side. The cake was about a ¼” different in overall height.

The homeowner smiled with satisfaction. “See, I told you that you installed the oven wrong” she said.

The appliance installer wasn’t very happy with her remarks but now that he knew her exact concern he investigated further. Turns out, the removeable rack inside the new oven was damaged and wouldn’t sit level inside the oven even though it was installed properly.

Oh well, you can’t please all of the people all of the time!
(And no… she didn’t apologize)

By the way, if you'd like to know what it takes to make your own cabinetry you
can get my Free Mini-Course entitled "Secrets of the Professional Cabinetmaker"
at my website: http://www.thecabinetguyonline.com

Cabinetry

Refacing Cabinetry...Is It A Solid Investment?

by Kevin Koop, aka "The Cabinet Guy Online"

Being a Custom Cabinetmaker and Finish Carpenter I'm frequently asked what I think about refacing cabinetry as opposed to demolishing the old cabinets and starting from scratch.

I generally pride myself as someone who has an open mind. While I have strong opinions on a variety of topics... I like to offer options to people rather than to come off as someone who knows it all. Besides, I don't "know it all."

That being said, to say I'm not a fan of refacing cabinetry would be an understatement! I'll give you the Pro's and Con's and let you be the judge.

If you have a refacing specialist in your home you are likely to hear something like...
Refacing cabinetry is an inexpensive way to update your kitchen's look with a minimum of inconvenience and without all the dirt, debris and noise associated with demolishing your kitchen and starting over.

Now, to be fair, there is some truth in the statement above. Refacing does typically cost less than having a custom cabinetmaker, like myself, completely redo your cabinetry. (Though it's not inexpensive!!!) The project will also be completed in less time than a custom cabinet job.

The problem is, they make no mention of quality or durability or improved functionality and forget getting a decent warranty!

In order to understand the problems with refacing cabinetry you need to know a little about the process. They typically remove and throw away the: doors, drawer fronts, door hinges, drawer slides and cabinet doorknobs (if any).

Then, the cabinets are "roughed-up" by sanding and sometimes a chemical stripper is used as well. The refacing installer then adheres a wood veneer to the exposed surfaces. Typically, the veneer has a PSA backing (Pressure Sensitive Adhesive) and it is firmly pressed to the old wood surface to make it's bond.

The veneer is trimmed and detailed. A new wood stain and protective finish is applied. The final touches include installing the new doors, drawer fronts, miscellaneous hardware and possibly the attached moldings.

The Con's come down to Quality and Freedom! The PSA Wood veneer is very thin and very frequently starts to bubble or lift off the old wood surface within a year to 18 months.

If you happen to catch something on an edge of the veneer you may very well peel it back or tear it altogether. If someone, say a child, happens to scratch the veneer surface it will most likely expose the old wood surface as the veneer is very thin.

As far as freedom goes, you didn't get to change the cabinet's interior. If you had fixed shelves before, you probably didn't get to upgrade to adjustable shelves as this is too much work in retrofitting.

If the old kitchen layout wasn't to your liking, your newly "updated" kitchen isn't going to work any different. The list goes on and on...

If you're still not convinced, ask around and find someone who refaced their kitchen more than two years ago and find out if they'd do it again. Just make sure theydon't work for the refacing company!

By the way, if you're interested in learning what it takes to make your own cabinetry, check out my website at: www.thecabinetguyonline.com